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Britishkna/Knanaya Viseshangal Blogs

Tuesday 10 January 2012

Abide by the constitution - Cont'd

Do you think everyone was treated equally? If that was the case Wigan unit would have been sanctioned two years back. (Yes, this Wigan issue is nothing new as many people believe; it was demanded more than 2 years ago) When this issue came up why did MKCA leaders objected it? And 3 sub committee members did not even bother to contact the applicants. When it comes to Wigan unit it needs time to analyse all aspects. Are we not Knanites?. Did they take so much time for all other new Units?

1. Initially I am not against UKKCA Wigan Unit, it’s good,  if this is an opportunity for the Wigan Knannaites to develop close family relations,  to live in love and harmony. But for that our constitution have clearly laid down procedures and my point is that procedures are not followed here. UKKCA is a national registered charity and it has to follow written procedures, otherwise a third person will repeat what you are doing now, creating constitutional crisis.

2. . UKKCA unit should have all the characteristics of any Knanaya Koodrayogam, which should be based on Christian values

3. These Koodarayogangal are very important to the existence of our community, which should only be promoting members love and affection through selfless sacrifice and strictly adhering to Christian standards. After the family, these are the places where our children learn Knanaya values and Christian standards, therefore irrespective of UKKCA approved units, Knanaya Koodarayogangal to be formed wherever Knannaites live harmoniously

4. If someone refused you a UKKCA unit status, you could have continued as a Wigan Knanaya Koodarayogam, which should have developed very personal bonds with at least members within your unit.

As you said all other units still upholds this constitution, then why can’t MKCA do that?. How did they elect 4 national council members when they do not have more than 150 families? Why they don’t have to go by the provisions of the constitution? Or, are they above the constitution?

1. This is absolute childish, all these allegations are raised after the elections, why all of you voted at the first place, if you had strong objections or reservations on number of national council members or any other issues, you should have walked out of the elections or at least raised your concerns before the election process.

2. After you or few other honourable members lost the election, you cry foul play, do you think other UK Knannaites can’t read within the lines, It’s Chrystal clear that your intention to form a unit is not for the community sake, but you are trying to avenge your colleague’s election defeats, which will only further ruin the community relations.

You said that it is disappointing for UKKCA to ignore the request of Seventy Six national council members and spiritual advisors for an urgent National Council meeting. Did anyone act on the petition they received from MKCA members immediately after the election? Second question: what action did the spiritual advisor take on MKCA issue? The answer (as everyone knows): Sweet Nothing.

1. This question should have been  answered by a UKKCA executive committee member, but again since most of them either not responding or sitting on the other side of the table, I am tempted to presume an answer, running away from their responsibility or unable to face each one of us.

2.  UKKCA appointed a committee involving 4 members to ensure fair decision and again their decision might have been delayed, but again without national council approval, how any decision can be implemented.  

Then how can he ask for an emergency National Council meeting? As you said about the by-laws, what is the role of a Spiritual Advisor? Has he really got the power to call an emergency meeting? Has his role been defined or is he an “extra constitutional authority?”

1. Do not raise questions for the argument sake, UKKCA is a Catholic Christian Association and every married catholic man should realise the importance of a priest, I need not to explain the role of a priest in any Catholic institution. As an individual I do have professional differences with Fr Saji and many other priests, but that doesn’t mean I don’t respect or consult them.

The applicants from Wigan asked for an appointment to discuss their issue with the Spiritual advisor as early as in the month of October 2011 but he did not pay attention to that. Then who is responsible to whom? This is a step-mother’s attitude. “Where every individual is respected and treated equally, every one’s grievances are heard and every establishment is legally bound to provide justice to all”

1. Our spiritual adviser is again not a UKKCA full timer, none can demand anything from him, you should have waited for the next national council meeting or again  pressed your colleagues for an emergency meeting rather than acting above constitution.

2. Any knannaite can form a koodarayogam, you don’t need any permission for that, but UKKCA national council permission is needed to start a UKKCA Unit.

Justice delayed is justice denied. Justice was delayed indefinitely without any reason for Wigan unit.

1. Be realistic, Justice cannot be reached or delivered overnight.

”If the elections took place as announced and agreed, we have the legal and moral responsibility to accept it, if not appeal against it to the unit and to UKKCA.”

As I mentioned previously what action did UKKCA take on the appeal/complaint from MKCA members immediately after the MKCA election? Did anyone pay any attention to the cry of fellow Knanites in MKCA and Wigan

So ordinary Knanites get the impression that some are above the constitution and for others HARSH LAWS, Laws Divine, Morall and Martiall, etc are binding

Can you say from the above facts that every individual is respected and treated equally and every one’ s grievances are heard in UKKCA?

1. You have been very patient for the last two years, immediately after  MKCA elections, you lost your patience. Any one can easily doubt your true intentions, was it to form Wigan unit or represent Wigan unit at UKKCA. 

UKKCA 2012 elections are not the end of world and heavens will not fall down if a particular individual becomes President, but all will be lost if we continued to fight internally without considering our other fellow Knannaites living in other parts of UK

1. No one is perfect in this world but everyone have their individual principles and ideologies, which is excellent but when it’s the matter of community and another person, one have to be very flexible to accept and adopt. Being in a position, one cannot satisfy each and everyone, but that doesn’t mean that the person is biased.  And because of that reason, no one can target a single person or keep away the biggest Unit of UKKCA.

2. Just imagine the whole world with more than 7 million people and only 2.5 to 3 lakhs Knannaites, More than 66 million people in UK and only 4000 – 5000 Knannaites. One cannot compare these figures in percentage, which will be less than many many zeros. In this small world you are fighting against your own brother, you may have a temporary reason for that but if you could think broadly, am I doing any good here or am I simply ruining my community relations.

Finally, I don’t have any personal hard feelings for anyone, but only respect and appreciation, especially people like you who are open to discuss the issues.  Please don’t take any of the above comments for personal but only for the organisational sake. Few still feel I should not have involved, but very simple as a person loving Knannaites and always wanted to see an ever progressing UKKCA achieving our all the following objectives : 

1) The advancement of the Christian religion in accordance with the tenets of the (Knanaya) Catholic Church

2) The advancement of education, in particular but not restricted to the area of family unity and development.

3) The relief of those in need by the advancement of any other charitable purpose, with a view to, in particular but not restricted to, the fulfillment of social and welfare needs.

14 comments:

  1. I think Mr Roy has more or less said exactly what was on my mind Mr Justin. I agree a lot of unfairness has happened in MKCA and that was the cause for a lot of people to leave MKCA.
    I for one do believe that difference need to be set aside Mr Justine and we move on together because one. I have asked you some questions in your previous post and you did not reply...The question was once disputes etc are resolved could you all work together as one?
    You have said in your speech that Wigan unit was sanctioned because Vice president of UKKCA was present, however according to the letter sent by the MKCA Mr Instain (president) of UKKCA signed on report book of MKCA stating that Wigan unit will not be finalised till next national council meeting. - Could I just ask one question Mr Justin, if this allegation is true then this means the inauguration of Wigan unit should not have been before that 2nd National Council Meeting irrespective of what the subcommittee found. Obviously i do not know the full story behind this but i just want this to be made clear by either the MKCA president/secretary or yourself Mr Justin. I think you, Mr Jishu, Mr Sajan, UKKCA president etc needs to be clear on this so that us people can understand the drama behind this. Of course if this is true that the president did sign stating so, then the inauguration of Wigan unit was directly going against UKKCA even with presence of vice president or is Mr Instain part of the drama or is UKKCA lying?
    You have stated in one of your posts that you were not a member of MKCA but i know for a fact that a very good percentage of people from Wigan unit were part of MKCA and the fact that this whole wigan unit crisis escalated just after the MKCA elections gives a funny impression that the whole agenda behind Wigan unit was not as you stated in your speech. Certain people are not able to get along with certain people and thus they use the fact that wigan railway station is over 25miles from Piccadilly railwaystation, Manchester. From the google map out of the 3 best possible routes only one is route above 25+miles (exactly 27.3miles) the other 2 routes are 23.4 and 21.7 miles respectively. So therefore I do not understand how you could say wigan is above 25+miles from Manchester? Anyhow another question which came to my mind shouldn’t members or people who live closer to Manchester mile wise be going to MKCA programmes not Wigan unit programmes? For example Oldham and stockport is above 25+ (near to 30) miles from wigan railway station. Just a thought...
    Personally i do not believe that this split or creation was necessary and it looks like to certain people that this whole creation of wigan unit was because certain people do not enjoy working along or allowing Mr Babey Kurian and co having a big say and to an extent getting his way. If this is the case the creation of another unit is not the answer! I think the answer to this is holding re-elections and sitting down around a table and holding civilised meetings unlike the ones that took place in MKCA where the president had to resign etc. All i am trying to tell people like yourself is that we all should aim to work together as a group and not create so many groups because ultimately it all DOES come down to younger generations (i.e. youths).
    I don’t know if you people understand what this does to youths to a certain extent? Forget dancing and all that, it is creating splits in their friendships! Families do not speak and hence children’s friendships are cut? Isn’t it vital for our children to have friends amongst themselves?
    Also remember one more thing and this goes to everyone one, Do not let the generation of tomorrow call you a villain. Being ready for compromises and working together, harmony etc is the Christian way and you shall be rembered for being a noble and honourable person in the society.
    Lastly, Let me remind you i am not a supporter or ill wisher of yourself, MKCA, Wigan unit, MKCA committee, UKKCA or anyone. I am just saying all this to make people think!

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  2. Roy than oru thiruthal vadi anennu ariyam . Own unit il ninnu plum jaikkan pattatha thante oru chorichilu. Than enna kuntha padachuvidane?. oruthanum oru koppum manassilakilla. Adhyam thante unit le presanam theerkku mone dinesha.

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  3. Hello, Proud Kna, you had sought answers from MKCA and from WKCA. Mr. Justin had at least given an interim reply. What about the MKCA bosses? If you heard from them privately, will you please publish it here for the knowledge of everyone?

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  4. Dear Proud kna
    I am waiting for a report from MKCA leaders for your earlier questions. For the time being I shall make it clear to the following question:

    "The question was once disputes etc are resolved could you all work together as one"

    I don't have any personal grudge or enemity towards anybody. But I may disagree on certain issues if I think they are not acceptable or beneficial to the community. You can enquire about me in Wigan or those who know me and come to a conclusion whether I am a villain, or a hero or a comedian or a producer or a Director.
    OR ALL-ROUNDER

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    1. Dear Mr Justin, I am not calling you any of those names above. I think you as well I know that the actual MKCA leaders are never going to give a reply to me on this forum...So you said u disagree on certain issues? what are those?

      Mr anonymous yes wigan unit has formed? but was it legal? there are many unanswered question which still remain regardless of mr justin's speech - no disrespect to you mr justin!
      So let me ask you how many children showed up to MKCYL prog very small number...hmmmm makes one wonder!

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    2. Is this not disgusting, dear friends?

      If they will not give an answer in this forum – fine; but let them answer in any other forum. Do they have any?

      From his comments, it seems this “Proud Kna” is perhaps a member of MKC(ultural)A. Don’t they owe him an answer? Proud Kna, please get it and share it with all of us in this forum. They are answerable to the members.

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    3. ചേട്ടന്മാരെ, ഇങ്ങനെ ദേഷ്യപെടരുതേ. ഈ ഫോറത്തിന്റെ കുഴപ്പമൊന്നുമല്ല. നേരെ ചോവേ പറയാന്‍ അറിയില്ലാത്തത് കൊണ്ടാ. പാവങ്ങള്‍, എല്ലാം നമ്മുടെ ക്നാനയമക്കള്‍ അല്ലെ? അവരെ മൂന്നു പേരെയും ഒരു Speech Therapistനെ കാണിക്ക്. വേണ്ടി വന്നാല്‍ ഒരു പിരിവെടുക്കണം. മറ്റാര്ക്കും വേണ്ടിയല്ലല്ലോ. നമ്മള്‍ തന്നെ തെരഞ്ഞെടുത്ത നേതാക്കളല്ലേ. തോണ്ടേല്‍ പുഴുത്താല്‍ .......

      J.K.

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    4. എന്റെ Proud Kna അച്ചായാ, സംസാരിക്കാന്‍ അറിയാന്‍ വയ്യാതത്തിനു ഈ ഫോറത്തില്‍ പറയുകയില്ല എന്നൊക്ക അവര് പറയുന്നത് അങ്ങ് വിശ്വസിചെക്കല്ലേ. ഇത്രയും വളച്ചു കെട്ടാതെ, ആണുങ്ങളുടെ മുന്പില്‍ വായ്‌ തുറക്കാന്‍ പേടിയാണെന്ന് അങ്ങ് സമ്മതിക്കാന്‍ പറ.

      ബ്രിട്ടീഷ്‌ ക്നാ മോശം ഫോറം ആണെങ്കില്‍ അവരോട് പറ, സ്വന്തമായി ഇത്പോലെ ഒന്ന് തുടങ്ങാന്‍. പത്തു പൈസ മുടക്കില്ലാതെ ഇതൊക്കെ ചെയ്യാമെന്ന് നമുക്കെല്ലാം ഇപ്പോള്‍ അറിയാമല്ലോ. ഇനി അതും വയ്യെങ്കില്‍, വലിയ പുള്ളികളല്ലേ, ഒരു International Press Conference വിളിച്ചു കൂട്ടാന്‍ പറ. BBC, CNN, Daily Telegraph, Guardian എന്നിവരെയും പിന്നെ നമ്മുടെ Manchester മാധ്യസ്തന്റെ പ്രിയ ഓണ്ലൈnന്‍ പത്രത്തെയും വിളിക്കണം.

      ആരെയാണ് ഇവര്‍ മണ്ടന്മാരാക്കാന്‍ നോക്കുന്നത്?

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  5. proud kna...you dont have to say all this...and waste your time brother...wigan unit..has formed..the president Justin is not a villain..i believe u have heard it from his speech and everything.

    once formed it is formed...no body is prepared or let me say can be bothered, to sit around the table with the MKCA's ex-president or any one else...to make a othutheerppu..42/43 other units are there in ukkca...but none has problems like that of wigan unit formation..

    and about the children, they are still continuing their friendships i believe...i believe both MKCA's and WKCA's children are still in MKCYL..

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  6. i do not see what is illegal about wigan unit formation??

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  7. hallo knanayakkaray
    pathinonnu per malsarichal nammuday MKCA yil ninnu naluperkku mathramay jayikkan sadhikku. athu ariyathay ano ningal malsarichathu????? appol tholkkunnavanokkay oro unit undakkiyal ividay ethra unit undakkanam. ee puthya unit unkkan nadakkunnavar dayavayi reply tharanam

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    1. പ്രിയ ക്നാനയക്കാരീ,

      നാല് സ്ഥാനമേ ഉള്ളൂ എന്നറിഞ്ഞു കൊണ്ട്തന്നെ പലരെയും മത്സരിക്കാന്‍ ക്ഷണിക്കുകയും, നിര്ബന്ധിക്കുകയും, അവസാനം സ്വയം മത്സരിക്കുകയും ചെയ്ത മഹാനെ കുറിചെന്തെങ്കിലും പറയാനുണ്ടോ? മത്സരിക്കുന്ന ആളു തന്നെ തെരഞ്ഞെടുപ്പ് നടത്തുക എന്നത് ഭവതി എവിടെയെങ്കിലും മുമ്പ് കേട്ടിട്ടുണ്ടോ? എന്നിട്ട് UKKCA-യിലെങ്ങും ഇല്ലാത്ത “വനിതാ സംവരണവും” നായകന്‍ നടപ്പാക്കി! തോറ്റവര്‍ വാലും ചുരുട്ടി പോകുമെന്നോര്ക്കാന്‍ ഇതെന്നാ വെള്ളരിക്കാപട്ടണമോ. ഇത്തരക്കാര്ക്ക്് വക്കാലത്തുമായി വരാന്‍ നിങ്ങളെ പോലെ കുറെ----- ഇല്ല, ഒന്നും പറയുന്നില്ല.

      പുതിയ യുണിറ്റ്‌ ഉണ്ടാക്കിയതും പിടിച്ചില്ല, അല്ലെ? നാത്തൂന്‍ ചത്താല്‍ ആങ്ങള വേറെ കെട്ടുകയില്ലേ? തല്ക്കാ്ലം അങ്ങനെ അങ്ങോര്‍ത്തോ.

      P. Thomas (Liverpool)

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  8. mkcaയുടെ തെരഞ്ഞെടുപ്പിന് തലേ ദിവസം തന്നെ മുഖ്യ തെരഞ്ഞെടുപ്പു നടത്തിപ്പുകാരെ ഇ മെയില്‍ വഴി പരാതി അറിയിച്ചിരുന്നു. തിരഞ്ഞെടുപ്പ് നിറുത്തി വയ്ക്കണം 4 പേരെ വിജയിപ്പിക്കുവനുള്ള ഫാമിലീസ് ഇവിടെ ഇല്ല എന്നും അറിയിച്ചിരുന്നു. എങ്കില്‍ പിന്നെ എന്തുകൊണ്ട് mkca തെരഞ്ഞെടുപ്പു അസാധുവാക്കി കൂടാ?. Manchester ല്‍ നിന്നും വരുന്നവരെ സ്ഥാനാര്‍ഥി ആക്കുവാന്‍ പറ്റില്ല. എന്താണ് പൊതുജന അഭിപ്രായം. MKCA Voters നെ മാത്രമല്ല എല്ലാ ക്നാനായ മക്കളെയും പറ്റിച്ചവരെ എങ്ങനെ സ്ഥാനാര്‍ഥി ആക്കും. അവരുടെ Nominations തള്ളി കളയണം. Mr. റോയ് ക്കും proud ക്നായിക്കും എന്താണ് അഭിപ്രായം. ഇത് ഭാവിയില്‍ മറ്റുള്ളവര്‍ക്ക് ഒരു പാഠം ആകട്ടെ. Manchesterല്‍ നിന്നും ആരും മത്സരിച്ചില്ലകിലും സ്വര്‍ഗം താഴെ വീഴുമോ Mr. റോയ്?

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    1. Why UKKCA become silent,according to this state ment MKCA is accountable to give proper explanation to all KNA.
      If MKCA is not giving proper explanation..do not accept their nomination by UKKCA.

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